I just wanted to say a big thanks to Bethesda for not jumping on the Securom bandwagon. As a long time PC gamer who doesn’t have Internet access for my PC, I have been punished by game companies with Internet activations and limits when all I want to do is buy and play a great game–which Fallout 3 is! Keep up the great work.

Left by Lance Young on October 30th, 2008

Congratulations.

You still managed to annoy legitimate users who PURCHASED your game while doing absolutely NOTHING to stop “piracy.”

The 360 version was available on the internets over a week ago. The PC version was available and cracked a day after release.

Of course, DRM has never been about preventing piracy. But you knew that already.

Left by Anonymous on October 30th, 2008

First poster: A disc chech is pretty lenient considering Spore’s hateful DRM, and there WILL be someone who cracks this with no cd. This is fine. I can live with it.

Left by Little Green Man on October 30th, 2008

I hope you will do something to prevent leaked copies to go around the torrent sites 20 days before release.I am buying your masterpiece and I hope you’ll use my money for fantastic games.

Left by emiliano on October 30th, 2008

Well it seems like at least a hand full of customer’s burned by YOUR DRM, will just have to go to a torrent site and Download a DRM Free Version , also I hope your Flock doesn’t lead you off a cliff.

Can’t say I’ve personally had any problems becuase of YOUR DRM, but if I did I would promptly crack FO3.
To the above poster FO3 PC was made availible for download(cracked) 24 hours before the American release date.

Left by ZiGZ on October 30th, 2008

Just to point out how silly this all is. Oblivion used the EXACT same DRM and nobody complained about that… I believe people are just finding excuses to complain because of all the recent DRM activity with Spore and all. Everyone should just enjoy the fun game that Bethesda made and keep their traps shut. How hard is it to download a minor update to fix the issue people were having.

Left by Jeff on October 30th, 2008

Being burned by SecuRom in the past, I will never again buy any game which includes it in any form.

Left by CJ on October 30th, 2008

Are you guys for real? they just said in this post (the one you replied to), that there are no DRMs in Fallout 3. Just a freaking disc check using the same Securom protection, which has been around for about 10 years.

Left by pfff on October 30th, 2008

Why is everyone blaming the developers for this? Suck it up people. Blame the pirates, not the developers. They are a business, please understand what that means. They need to make a profit to pay their employees and keep the company running. Its too damn bad that they have to resort to securom or whatever DRM. They would not do this if they did not lose so much money from piracy. You know, it costs them money to put DRM in their games.

So you don’t want to buy a game because it has copy-protection? That is just plain pathetic. These guys create such great games and people refuse to play them because of DRM. Get it legally and its not a problem.

Enough with the complaining already. Copy protection is not going to go away whether you like it or not. Just get over it and live with it, because technology such as file-sharing has brought us here.

Left by Ryan on October 30th, 2008

Personally, I have no problem with disk checks since the only people they generally hurt are pirates. Granted, this protection doesn’t last very long but it helps stave it off.
But those of us who actually bought the disk aren’t really affected. I mean, we have to have the disk in the drive, but we’ve had to do that for decades! Yes it would be nice to not have to do that, but it really shouldn’t cause an uproar if we do have to, because we’ve been doing it since the late 80s.
I applaud your resistance to the invasive tactics used by EA and the like which limit the ability of users to play a game they payed full price for whenever and where ever they want. I’d also like to thank you for releasing Fallout 3 on Steam, because of how great a service Steam provides users with. If I had not already ordered the Collector’s Edition from Gamestop.com (which should arrive today!), I would have snapped up a Steam copy. As it is, I’ll have to mount it on Steam but it’s no big deal really. =)

Left by FinalFrog on October 30th, 2008

Almost every game I’ve ever played has had a disk check. I think the only one that DIDN’T was the first Fallout.

The game installed fine, works fine, it’s really just not a problem. I don’t get what the big deal is. It wasn’t a problem with Morrowind, it wasn’t a problem with Oblivion, and it’s not a problem with Fallout 3.

Left by Princess Stomper on October 30th, 2008

I wanted to add another comment. For all those people complaining about this DRM issue. Buy the game on STEAM and then you will never have to worry about a disc EVER AGAIN! Just connect to STEAM and run the game! Issue SOLVED! Now go blow someone’s head off ( in Fallout 3 that is )

Left by Jeff on October 30th, 2008

Yeah, the pricing on the Steam-version is a bit strange. I like to preserve shelve space in my room, and not walk to the store, and save the environment by not having boxes and shipping and stuff … but it’d cost me about 20 euros more than if I’d just buy a boxed version. Which probably has a neat map.

I get the whole retailers-whining problem but it’s strange nontheless.

Left by Gamer_V on October 30th, 2008

Though I guess being able to download it everywhere for the rest of my life … or until the economy crashes … might be kind of expensive.

Left by Gamer_V on October 30th, 2008

“Ah look! Bethsoft made a post about SECUROM and lets complain without reading it!”

Really people, Oblivion (and probably MW) used this protection as well and nobody had problems and it was alredy confirmed that this is NOTHING more then a disk check.

Of course, idiots here will ignore it like they ignore everything said here.

Left by Nayrael on October 30th, 2008

Fallout 3 is the best game to be released this year. Anyone complaining about Securom (which is indeed a mild form of DRM compared to Crysis Warhead or even Far Cry 2) should be locked up in Vault 101 for a while. A long while.

Just buy the game and stop crying. Or play it on your sub-par powered console. These types of outcries are really getting ridiculous. In this day and age, there is little to no way to protect digital content other than DRM. I’m sure if most of the people whining about this realized the people behind games are blue collar individuals who rely on game sales to - you know, feed your family, pay your bills and such, you wouldn’t be complaining.

Props to Bethesda though. The level of detail and polish in Fallout 3 is amazing. Thanks for a great game, can’t wait to see what ES5 has in store for us…

Left by Gyshall on October 30th, 2008

PS - I’ve gotten the Survival and Collector’s editions. Love the bobblehead!

Left by Gyshall on October 30th, 2008

“Really people, Oblivion (and probably MW) used this protection as well and nobody had problems”

That’s nice. People are having problems with it this time.

“Of course, idiots here will ignore it like they ignore everything said here.”

Oh the irony of someone ignoring the blog post this comment thread is referring to.

Left by Anonymous on October 30th, 2008

For the second time, since the first post didn’t make it. I tried your suggestion and it didn’t work. Got exactly the same thing as before.

“The application failed to initialize properly (0xc0000005). Click on OK to terminate the application.

How about issuing a patch so the rest of us can enjoy the game?????????????????/

Left by Arteful Dodger on October 30th, 2008

“Really people, Oblivion (and probably MW) used this protection as well and nobody had problems and it was alredy confirmed that this is NOTHING more then a disk check.”

Only except in Oblivion (not GOTY version) there was disc check, but not the SECUROM one, got it?

And its the SECUROM one that is giving people trouble, because it conflicts with regular programs like Nero, Daemon Tools or Alcohol 120%.

NO GAME SHOULD EVER DICTATE ME WHAT PROGRAMS CAN I USE.

And as everyone with a brain already pointed out, the game was CRACKED immediately = DRM is USELESS.
Why do companies keep insisting on using it when their games are cracked usually even before release is just beyond me.

Left by Pavel on October 30th, 2008

Congratulations on driving away yet more potential consumers from buying Fallout 3, Bethesda. You’re probably proud of yourselves for the fact that you’ve joined the likes of EA and Valve’s Steam when it comes to imposing useless DRM measures which only punish honest citizens who buy the games legally, yet any pirate can crack such programs and still get the game for free.

If I have to do more than put in a CD key, then you’re not getting my business, Bucko.

And for those of you fellating Steam like a high school cheerleader performing for the entire football team, you seem to forget that, at it’s very core, Steam was, is, and always will be DRM. They can throw all of the fancy bells and whistles they want on it to try to sweeten this bitter pill. At the end of the day, though, it’s still DRM and you’re perpetuating it by getting sucked into thinking it’s awwwwwwright.

I can put sprinkles, whipped cream, chocolate chips, and a Hawaiian umbrella on a dog turd. No matter how I try to make it look appetizing, it’s still a dog turd at the end of the day.

If you wanna stop DRM like SecuROM and Steam, then don’t buy games from companies, developers, and publishers who insist on using it. Maybe when their pocketbooks are hit like Mike Tyson punching you in the crotch, they’ll finally listen and abandon all of this DRM silliness. Until then, you’re just making sure DRM sticks around longer.

Oh, here’s an idea: shareware. It worked great in the past. Try before you buy. Why can’t these companies go back to this model instead of trying to find ways to make gaming harder for the law-abiding citizen via DRM?

Left by Anonymous on October 30th, 2008

Good work Bethesda!I have just bought the collector’s edition..

Best game of 2008!

Left by Yahoocom on October 30th, 2008

The Point I would like to make is this. There has been DRM on games since floppies, it has never worked. Seriously just try to name a game(ANY GAME) that has not been cracked, its a pointless endevour.

“it was alredy confirmed that this is NOTHING more then a disk check.”

Nope, actually it has to be more than a simple disc check because it’s looking for emulation software.

Left by ZiGZ on October 30th, 2008

maybe its time to bring back the monkey island picture wheel or the Secutry check in Frontier: Elite 2 with a page, paragraph and line and letter system again with big thick manuals

Left by vagabondHT on October 30th, 2008

Thank you for clearing that up, Beth.
I read the post instead of just kvetching! Though I think perhaps using SecureRom was kind of a bad move, people have a pretty negative attitude about it, even if the version you are using truly only does a disc check. I think some people are upset over the principle of the thing. It just has a bad rap for being invasive and interfering with applications other than the game it was installed with. Rather too late now though.
I hasn’t done anything bad to my system. I have always been pleased with stuff from Bethesda. Okay, well Crasherfall was almost unplayable despite being really really cool. Just too unstable. But otherwise, the games have kept me engaged like no other. And the construction sets have been just amazing. I love building worlds. After I had my back surgery, when I couldn’t walk, the Oblivion construction set gave me something to do, stopped me from going crazy. So thanks for that. And I hope you release one for Fallout 3!

Left by Ev on October 30th, 2008

As an additional factor, I’m still not convinced that the “creative” method of disk access used to verify the disk is not doing damage to optical drives. The drives were primarily designed with mostly sequential access in mind. As I understand it, Securom does mostly random reads.

Fortunately, unlike the official SecuROM patch, the “community provided” patch fixes this problem too

Left by Angaelus on October 30th, 2008

“maybe its time to bring back the monkey island picture wheel or the Secutry check in Frontier: Elite 2 with a page, paragraph and line and letter system again with big thick manuals

Left by vagabondHT on October 30th, 2008″

This might give the developers some motivation to start writing decent manuals as well (or even provide a story book and other goodies making it worthwhile purchasing the game without paying a “collector’s” premium).

At least we can give the blog mods credit for not abusing the large disclaimer at the bottom. They’ve allowed the dissenters to speak!

Left by Angaelus on October 30th, 2008

Actually, I did buy the game off steam and yes I still had SecuRom issues. I wasn’t even able to get into the game until I removed SecuRom from my system.

SecuRom functions like Starforce = it installs a low level driver that hooks into your Kernel. It is unsigned and has not passed any sort of WHQL.

If you think I’m full of it - go into your device manager, click view, click show hidden devices. Now expand the “Non-Plug and play drivers” in the device tree on the left side. Scroll through, and bam.

SecuRom installs Ring 0/Kernel level drivers. Unsigned, no whql, nothing. It also does not remove itself after an uninstall.

Left by JM on October 30th, 2008

I’m curious as to why my two previous posts disappeared? There was nothing derogatory or profane in either of them. Just a comment on the suggestion to run setup.exe from the disk.

Left by arteful dodger on October 30th, 2008

I understand the need for companies/developers, etc. to want to protect their months and years of work; any sane person would.

Having said that, I have to agree with Pavel in that no program should attempt to dictate what goes on our own computers. Bearing in mind also that there are still a lot of people that like to burn their purchased games to play from that disc instead of the original (and if families have children, it is practically a necessary first step when purchasing any new software or other digital media). SecuRom and others, however, are doing more damage to the programs they’re trying to protect than being particularly useful or effective. I’m not saying that the idea isn’t a good one… just that it’s an ineffectual one. Unfortunately, if I had a better idea, I would offer it but I don’t.

However, getting upset and overly heated about the issue, isn’t going to solve issues or help in anyway other than to make people go on the defensive.

Left by Khevor on October 30th, 2008

I love the work you all do, so I bought Fallout 3. That’s what buying games is about. I don’t care about the publisher, but I like to see good developers like yourselves be able to put food on the table and gas in the Jaguar.

Left by nekulor on October 30th, 2008

Seriously… why does Bethesda even try anymore? Their “fans” rail them about EVERYTHING. They spend 4 years creating a game purely for your enjoyment, and you bitch to them about a DRM?
If they have it, you crack it to get back at them.
If they don’t have it, everyone but you cracks it.

I’m incredibly happy these guys took the time to make a nice polished game for us. Especially a new fallout.
Get bent if you’re going to nitpick about the DRM.

Left by Dalton on October 30th, 2008

“They spend 4 years creating a game purely for your enjoyment, and you bitch to them about a DRM?”

Ah, more pointless morality from the people who have to resort to useless ad hominem.

They spent 4 years creating a game purely for their BUSINESS. It was not an act of charity. If their customers get annoyed by being treated by criminals, they have the right to be upset.

Left by Anonymous on October 30th, 2008

treated as*

Also missed another silly comment.

“If they don’t have it, everyone but you cracks it.”

Repeat after me: DRM does NOTHING to stop piracy.

Left by Anonymous on October 30th, 2008

What are you guys arguing about? The disk check is in place so you can’t just pass your DVD around to all your friends for them to install. Sure, they could get a crack, but most people won’t be that savvy. If you really want to steal a game, you can do it, but calling a disk check “useless” is missing the point. It’s not meant to be foolproof, it’s just meant to be a small obstacle to prevent casual sharing.

Left by Peter on October 30th, 2008

I happily forked over my 50$ for Fallout 3, however I seriously expect that money to go towards getting the CS released sometime in the near future.

Fallout 3 has such potential, any possible kink or problem with vanilla FO3 is easily remedied by a few community tweaks. That and the nearly infinite amount of really cool mod possibilities thanks to the setting.

Left by Anonymous on October 31st, 2008

Some of you people need to actually look up the word “DRM” - Fallout 3’s protections are NOT DRM. It’s a securom based disc authentication. That’s NOT DRM. There ARE different versions of Securom, and some are resident on your computer and these versions check for stuff that bypasses it/etc. I do NOT have a Securom folder or install from Fallout 3. Thanks Spore/EA for making lots of uninformed people aware of the word “DRM” as a catchphrase.

As for Fallout 3, great game and great company! Very deserving of multiple buys ^^

Left by That's not DRM on October 31st, 2008

Oblivion did not load anything onto the hard drive so no problem. Shivering Isles did and caused a lot of problems with my dvd drives and shuting down of my computer. EA games do the same thing. SecuROM can take over any computer it is loaded on, and will if there are more than one burner installed, firewalls, anti-viruses, anti-adware, and copy programs on the hard drive. DRM is not of itself bad, programs like SecuROM are. Its from Sony the same pepole who got busted for Audieo rootkits.

Left by Thomas Cohoon on October 31st, 2008

Great job on the game guys. I bought it the night it came out and have been playing nonstop (skipped class, put off work :-D). I had so much fun just starting out that I began exploring the world and completely ignored the main quest for three days straight. Level 9, but I just finally got to the radio station!

Left by Andrew on October 31st, 2008

Oh yeah, you guys should make a full collection of bobbleheads from in the game. Or at least the medical and small guns ones! Oh, or nukacola caps! that would rule.

Also, anywhere I can get a fallout t-shirt or poster?

I remember fallout 2 being my favorite game when I was 16, and you guys really did an awesome job on 3. Thank you again.

Left by Andrew on October 31st, 2008

For those people who are saying that Fallout 3 uses the same disc check as Oblivion, I suggest doing some research before speaking. Oblivion did NOT use SecuROM, it used a simple disc check built into the game that just verified the presence of a file on the DVD. You could make a copy of the disc in any burning software and pass the check. They are definitely not using the activation version of SecuROM but they are using the version that on many systems, will not allow you to run the game if you have any number of CD burning applications installed, all of which can and often are used for perfectly legal and legitimate purposes. This is most certainly NOT the same situation as Oblivion and anyone claiming that is sticking their foot in their mouth.

Left by Parallax Abstraction on October 31st, 2008

To everyone who is complaining about the DRM:

Here are the facts. They only went with a disc check because any and every anti-piracy protection can be and will be cracker. There is nothing any developer can do to stop pirates. That is just the sad truth. They acknowledged this fact so they chose not to annoy their customers. If you think a disc check is annoying then cry more you new-age gamer.

Secondly, quit being babies and saying, “oh they are jerks and installing DRM on my computer, thus I am not going to buy the game.” I payed for this game and loved it. I am happy to have supported the developers. They put their hearts into making this game everything it is and all of you who pirate it… it just saddens me that after all their work and for such an amazing job there are such cheap bastards that don’t even have the smallest scrap of decency to not steal.

So just buy the game and quit whining your faces off already. Support the developers and enjoy their masterpiece.

Left by Anonymous on October 31st, 2008

“They spent 4 years creating a game purely for their BUSINESS.”

Yes. Yes they did. Did you know that people need to eat and have a place to live? I sure didn’t.

I have made many small games and have attended a video game design school for over a year. These people aren’t doing this purely for money and for their business. They are doing it for their fans, themselves, and for everyone to enjoy. They are doing it for the fans of the Fallout series. They didn’t sit down and say, “hey guys, how do you think we can make a bunch of money this time?” You make it sound like they are only interested in money… They are interested in money to survive and live.

Left by Anonymous on October 31st, 2008

Indeed. When will you learn? All DRM does is irritate and frustrate your audience whilst doing NOTHING to prevent piracy.

Left by Anthony on October 31st, 2008

I bought Oblivion and Shivering Isles - and *because* I love them so much, I installed a crack to get rid of the disc check. Or do I use a disc image loader? I can’t even remember anymore. Regardless, I want my game discs to last, and I want the convenience to play it as soon as I get the urge.

On the other hand, I also bought NWN2 and Bioshock. They had over-zealous copy protection. Both took ages to simply load the various publisher logos, while the disc check mouse cursor span along happily wasting time. But neither game really drew me in, and Bioshock’s technical failings irritated me immensely, so that once I finished the game, that was that - off it goes. They are now rotting on my shelf. This is my point - I simply don’t love those games enough to bother cracking the copy protection. Possibly the laborious disc checks were a factor in curbing my enthusiasm.

Of course, from the publisher’s perspective, all of the games I mentioned above are sales, regardless of game quality or how much effort was put into a copy-protection scheme that won’t stop piracy^H^H^H^H^H^H copies of games appearing on file-sharing services anyway.

And any game protection that needs to mess with OS components to install is fundamentally wrong.

Left by Neko on October 31st, 2008

For all those who are still pissed off by THIS:

*takes a deep breath*

QUIT WHIIIIIIIINIIIIIIIING! And be happy this isn’t like with Spore- speaking about Spore…

QUIT WHIIIIIIIINIIIIIIIING! If you were a damn honest man who just follows rules and regulations, there would be no problem. I have never had problems with DRM or anything similar. Only once, and that was my fault.

And at least I admit it was my fault.

Okay, so that’s over with for today.

Left by Lowercase T on October 31st, 2008

Meh, still totally pointless.
Now I know will have to download and install a no-CD-crack once my copy arrives to have the same unproblematic gaming experience that others have, who paid nothing for this game.

Left by David on October 31st, 2008

If it only are doing a CD-Check, why ask for disable other perfectly legal software as can be Daemon Tools, Burning software, Alcohol 120 and so on.

Not, it is not doing a single CD-Check, it is dictating what and what not can be installed on the computer and nobody has the right to tell me what i am able to have installed or not.

I was very interested in the title, honest, but since SecuROM is involved in all this, this will be a no sale from me.

I bought Oblivion, it had a true CD-Check and i was happy with this behaviour, Fallout 3 is not the same.

I am one of these paying for the games, but this DRM nightmare is something i will not tolerate.

Sorry my English, i am Spaniard.

Kind regards.

Left by Kha on October 31st, 2008

what they could have done instead of securerom, they could have used a usb DRM dongle (like the Aladdin hasp keys, those things are impossible to crack). only change the casing to make it look interesting and fallout’y like a radiation meter or something.That way people can pirate it all they want but without the physical hardware key they can’t run it..the additional cost of they keys would be offset by the additional sales

Left by xerox2k2 on October 31st, 2008

“they could have used a usb DRM dongle (like the Aladdin hasp keys, those things are impossible to crack).”

..because what.. usb dongles are made by aliens from another dimension and no human being can figure out how they work?!?

The program has to be in runnable condition at some point of time, otherwise it just can’t run. I guess you know what debuggers and virtual machines are for? It can be incredibly annoying(=worthy challenge!) to figure out, but to say it’s impossible is just deluded.

Left by haha on October 31st, 2008

Besthesda really needs to create clear labeling on the back of their packaging. In fact the gaming industry needs to come clean and display if the product comes with a limited activations or the dreaded rootkit or does not.

I fully support Besthesda and are looking forward to buying the game next week. Others should take a more pragmatic approach to this victory. You really do own this product, unlike EA’s rentalware poison.

Left by Fido on October 31st, 2008

I do not like SecuROM so let me be clear on that. The references of it being similar to Starforce hit the nail on the head.

However, I bought my copy via Direct2Drive, and I don’t have any disc check to worry about. I did have to activate my copy, and I’m not even sure what program did that or if it was via D2D itself, but since activating it I have had zero issues with disc checks since I have no disc to check.

If you’re that worried about DRM and disc checks, then buy a copy via digital purchase. For some games I understand even that goes too far because stuff like Spore and Dead Space limit the number of installs to 3 separate systems, but for most games you avoid the disc check because as I said, there is no disc to check.

Bethesda really took a softer approach than most companies do these days when it comes to new games. I’m not saying what they did was right, but somehow they and other companies are convinced they need to spend money on programs like SecuROM, which ultimately does nothing but promote more pirating.

This game had 3,000 leechers on one site and over 12,000 leechers on another site torrenting it. That makes me very sad, because I believe Bethesda does NOT do it just for the money. But how do you stop a pirate?

You can’t yet.

Props to them >trying< to do the right thing by limiting it to a disc check. On the same note, they should know better with SecuROM and know it messes with people’s systems.

Eventually companies will realize the best for of anti-piracy is as has been mentioned already; using the manual or adding a spin wheel or somesuch that isn’t so easily recreated (alright the manual is, but the wheel from Monkey Island 2 isn’t) — anyway good luck for those of you experiencing issues with this, and for those of you choosing not to buy the game because of it, I can respect your decision but you’re missing out on a helluva good game.

Left by CymTyr on October 31st, 2008

I might be “missing out on a helluva good game.”, but more likely I’m missing out on more of the same problems I’ve had with SecuROM in the past. It hides on the hard drive and updates itself when Sony puts out a new version. SecuROM is NOT about priacy but about secondary sales as the game company does not recive any moneys for them. To say that this is not like EA is miss-informed. SecurROM is only one program and only the opptions enabled are different. It still loads unwanted on the hard drive and takes upon itself supper admin rights to control the use of the computer not the game software. The emulation error is a self protection action and not a game protection one. Sony does not care if the game is copied or not, but they do not want their software messed with.

Left by Thomas Cohoon on October 31st, 2008

A “simple disc check” that actively tries to prevent you from using perfectly legitimate and legal programs on your own personal computer is DRM. Period.

Left by Anonymous on October 31st, 2008

“that actively tries to prevent you from using perfectly legitimate and legal programs on your own personal computer”

Sense when? I have installed tons of games with DRM and never once had a single problem on my computer with the DRM. I hear people complaining, but nothing anyone has ever said has happened to me.

Left by Anonymous on October 31st, 2008

Which of course means the problem doesn’t exist right? So many people on here telling others to quit whining because since a problem didn’t affect THEM, it must not exist at all. If I may offer a suggestion to those people: Take your head out of wherever it is stuffed and grow up. SecuROM DOES often prevent you from using the game you bought if you have any other number of legitimate burning applications installed. It actually didn’t in my case (I have Daemon Tools installed on this PC for testing images I create of utility CDs that my business uses) but in my friend’s case, it did. As it did in the case of many others. So the problem didn’t affect me but I’m not arrogant enough to claim that it doesn’t exist and those claiming to be inconvenienced by it are pirates.

Left by Parallax Abstraction on October 31st, 2008

Howdy.

First of all, looking at trailers the game looks awesome. But when playing it, trying to exit the vault and constantly getting crashed there, it looks unfinished. Is it too much to expect that a game based on single player is running decently? Ive tried all different resolutions, it doesnt change anything.

And when installing and playing game i was never asked to use my code, which i found strange.

-Nestorn

Left by Nestorn on October 31st, 2008

I don’t think the issue is what Bethesda uses SecureROM for… it’s the rootkit-like behavior of the product that allows OTHER people to use it for nefarious purposes.

The problem is installing it on your users computers in the first place, not what you may or may not use it for.

Not that it matters to me personally, I’ve got the Xbox 360 version.

Left by Jordan on October 31st, 2008

Anonymous you are one lucky person (or working for the game companies and Sony). I bought DVD burnes because I got them for less. I installed two because I play many games and that cuts down on disk changes. SecuROM has been a really big problem for me in the past (burnt two times). Seems that because I’ve installed two DVD burners, I’m automaticly engaged in making copies of software even though I do not have any coping software but Windows. SecuROM started to cause trouble with disk loading times (two to five min.s for everything). Then it started to shut down my computer any time I tried to rum any program with error message that I had dangerous progarms loaded and SecuROM had to close Windows to protect itself from reverse engenering I migth be engaging in.

Left by Thomas Cohoon on October 31st, 2008

Okay, so you’ve solved the installation issue.

WHAT are you going to do about the constant crashes that hundreds of PC users are experiencing, including me? Look at the forums in the PC issues!!! If Bethesda doesn’t make a patch soon they should AT LEAST announce that they are addressing the problem. This game looks amazing, but a lot of us can’t play for more than 5 minutes without crashing for no apparent reason.

God help us. =’(

Left by Tristan Childress on October 31st, 2008

This is a shoutout to all the wannabe witty anonymous tools on this article. Go fug yourself. We don’t care who you are, or what you’re saying. The game rocks and if it checks for discs, I don’t care.

Left by Smarmy on October 31st, 2008

You cant stop piracy

Left by asd on October 31st, 2008

I’ve never had a problem with DRM either, even with various burning software/disc emulation software installed and running.

Left by qzilla on October 31st, 2008

Thank you very much for making this clear. All I really care about is keeping SecuROM from being installed on my computer, and the knowledge that this won’t happen has assuaged my concerns. You guys are getting a lot of anger directed at you, and maybe not without good reason, but at least for my part you are still on the good side. I just wanted to see to it you knew I acknowledged this.

Left by Mark on October 31st, 2008

^Ditto. I have several burning programs installed and not one or two but three DVD burners the oldest of which is 3 years old. They all have an up to date bios. If you have a disk drive that is two or more years ol and re-flash your drives people. Oh and it helps a lot I’m sure if your DVD burning software is valid, registered and up to date.

Left by worm82075 on October 31st, 2008

For everyone that says “it’s not a problem”…

I find it difficult to believe that you never play more than one game at a time, or that you actually enjoy swapping disks around. It’s an inconvenience, and therefore it’s a problem, regardless of whether you run into technical problems or not.

I just hope the disk-check on this is as lenient as the one on Oblivion, and let me run the disk from a Daemon Tools disk image. (Which, of course, points out the uselessness of the whole system…)

Left by goob234 on November 1st, 2008

Yay, Bethesda did moral piracy prevention, not the immoral stuff EA’s pulling lately. Well, that was the last thing stopping me from going down to EB and picking up a copy! Huzzah!

Left by APM on November 1st, 2008

I’m sorry; but if you use SecureROM…then you are deploying a rootkit which installs itself into the layer of the operating system which has full kernel access priveleges. SecureROM hides processes from the user because it does not run at a high-level process. It runs with full kernel access-priveleges to perform interrupts at a low-level on the CD-ROM drives when a game flagged with it; is executed.

It cannot be removed either; not without formatting your PC. It exists despite its related folder being present and mysteriously empty of files. This is fundamentally bad and takes away our rightful control over our computers.

Left by Hossein on November 1st, 2008

For all the know it alls. Oblivion did not use SecuRom. Only the re-Release did (GOTY E).

Left by Tim on November 1st, 2008

I cannot express how disappointed I am in you, Bethesda, for ignoring the disappointment people have voiced over SecuROM in the past. I really wanted to buy Fallout 3 as soon as it gets out, but since it seems that you’re just the same as other studios (i.e. not taking consumers seriously) out there, I’ll just spend my money on non-DRM-infested games instead.

This is mainly because I’m disgusted by the fact that even the fraction of a cent of the money I paid for a game would go to people who have made a business out of messing with people’s computers and game enjoyment and, most important, turning customer property into rentals.

I really hope that, one day, game companies will realize that they’re actually supporting an endless, SecuROM-driven circle of customer harassment and that the money they’re giving away is really just driving legitimate customers and fans into piracy.

Left by Denkbert on November 1st, 2008

Please make sure to post when you have a “securerom free” cd/dvd of the game for purchase. I loved the previous two games, and look forward to playing it again.

Left by xcom on November 1st, 2008

I am one of the people that WAS affecte by the securom bethesda includes with fallou 3. securom doesnt let cretain dvd drives even read the dvd, even though its in the drive. if i didnt have an old drive laying around, i would be down 50 bucks, stuck with a game I COULDNT INSTALL! not a problem? please..

Left by Arkio on November 2nd, 2008

Pete Hines lying as usual:

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1012

Left by Anonymous on November 2nd, 2008

I bought Fallout 3 after reading the official Bethesda stance on DRM. I don’t like any copy-protection mechanisms whatsoever, but the media-check I can at least live with.

(Main reason I dislike any and all copy-protection mechanisms on single-player games is that they are by definition broken, per definition. Rest assured that those among you who believe it can work are not well-versed enough in mathematics and cryptography. You should learn more after which you might begin to understand the finer issues here.)

Well.

The very first thing that happened upon launching the installer was it telling me that I have to reboot my PC since I was running (or had ever run since last reboot) the FileMon utility from SysInternals. Now also available directly from Microsoft via http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896642.aspx

I loathe having to reboot my computer in an unplanned manner. I loathe having to reboot my computer due to some moronic attempt at copy-protection, especially when it happens with a game where the publisher has explicitly stated that it only does a simple media-check.

It is a provably false statement. It is a lie.

SecuROM does NOT only do a simple media-check. It performs all sorts of checks on running programs as well as programs that have ever been executed since last reboot.

At least the SecuROM configuration used for Fallout 3 is not of the phoning-home kind which forced me to not buy Mass Effect for the PC earlier this year.

Saying that is only does a media-check is still a lie.

Maybe you shouldn’t be lying to your customers, Bethesda?

Personally, I take offense at being lied to.

Left by david on November 3rd, 2008

re: haha

yes i will concede that hasp keys are not ‘impossible’ to crack,but they are extremely difficult to crack,especially when the keys can be remotely updated,or deactivated, or patched through game updates to plug any holes people find.

“no human being can figure out how they work?!?..I guess you know what debuggers and virtual machines are for? ”

yes i do know what debuggers and hex editors are,in fact so does Aladdin and they have countermeasures for it. the point of drm is to make it as difficult as possible to pirate so people won’t bother trying.

Left by xerox2k2 on November 3rd, 2008

I’m running virtual drives of Alcohol 52%, Magic Disk and PowerIso and I had no problem installing Fallout 3. All three apps stil work and I can still load disk images.

I have a serious feeling alot of folks are misinformed or misinforming.

If one refuses to install just because the name Securom is attached, then one cannot enter in a discussion with those people because their mind is already made up.

I was getting worried for nothing. Everything including Fallout 3 and the virtual drives work perfect. I didn’t even have to download the fix from the securom site. It all worked out-of-box.

I do agree with complaints about for instance Far Cry 2 where only a limited number of installs or re-installs are allowed. But that is a different issue.

Left by JB on November 4th, 2008

Thanks, it’s good to know some companies still care about their customers!

Left by Keke on November 4th, 2008

What’s wrong with the world?

Fallout 3 is a masterpiece, it deserves Game of the Year, and the team have took HUGE steps in making sure DRM and other junk isn’t installed along with the game!

It goes to show that if you make a masterpiece people WILL buy it, they aren’t simply buying the game because crappy DRM forces them to.

I had a choice, buy the game for PS3 or download a warez copy from the ‘net, and I went for the PS3 even though the warez copy was there.

I think a lot of the comments on this page are from under 20’s or school kids with very little money, too much time and a lot of complaints with life. You see it everywhere, regarding every game.

Be grateful this isn’t EA releasing these fantastic games, otherwise we’d all be sucking up in-game advertisements, subscriptions and DRM.

Left by thisisapen on November 4th, 2008

I downloaded this game, but now when I have played it I will definitly buy it! I’m in love with this game, but the eyes of chars are dead, the movement in third person is really sucky e.t.c. but I guess you allready know this.

Left by Victor on November 4th, 2008

Why didn’t anyone sue companies like SecuRom yet. It’s rootkit/trojan like behaviour should make it a fairly strong case…

Left by Anonymous on November 4th, 2008

Bethesda, you missed the point completely!

The problem isn’t that you use a disc check for DRM (thats a whole other issue), its that you use SecuROM to do it. Ditch SecuROM and use something else, instead of this trojan.

Left by Paul on November 5th, 2008

Anyone else notice that about the only thing SecuROM accomplishes is enraging people who bought legit copies of the game(like myself)? I think the average time it takes to crack a SecuROM update is like 2 hours or something? Thanks Beth for no install limit BS and other draconian measures, but in the future, ditch SecuROM all together.

Left by NATESOR on November 5th, 2008

I find it amusing that in the same thread, Bethesda manages to repeat the blatant lie that Fallout 3 only uses a “simple disc check” and reveal that it is *MORE* than a “simple disc check” by telling users to stop using perfectly legitimate programs to get around the problems SecuROM causes.

Left by Anonymous on November 7th, 2008

I haven’t got my CE of Fallout yet but I am checking the Securom issues first because of the serious Securom issue I had with FarCry 2. Random restarts programs not launching because Securom won’t let them (and I don’t mean daemon tools and the like but 3d content creation tools and software for my work) and other random instabilities. Not to mention it seems my computer security is now compromised. One of the main fears of what rootkits can do.

I am not at all against companies trying to protect their work but the protection needs to be functional or at least not damaging to your computer and the other legitimate software on it.

As uninstalling Securom via a very conveluted methode hasn’t resolved all my new stability issues it looks like I will be reinstalling the OS after a clean wide of the HD. 8(

Left by Brian on November 7th, 2008

Personally, I am not to happy about you guys using SecuROM.
I have no problem with a disk check, but why oh why use SecuROM to do it? I normally don’t buy games with it as it is a royal pain in the butt for me to completly remove.
I have to say thanks however, for not limiting installs and such. I may not be happy about it, but it could be a LOT worse.

Left by Raccoonism on November 8th, 2008

Hey! Just a shout out to Bethesda for making an awesome game without all the bullshit CD protection like Red Alert 3 and BF2142. Thanks guys =)

Left by Thanks guys on November 13th, 2008

Yeah, well done guys, game is fricking awesome.

Left by Random Turnip on November 26th, 2008

The game is great and thank you very much for it, but I will say your use SecuROM has annoyed me greatly. Initially all was fine but after uninstalling and installing a few other games that have nothing to do with Fallout 3 I now get a message saying my copy of the game is a back up and that I need to insert an official disc! I’ve had to go and download a cloaking program to get my legitimately purchased game to work which is unacceptable.

Left by Jada Bloom on November 28th, 2008